INTRODUCTORY PART – Personal relationship with China

How did your experience with China begin? Was it a casual meeting, linked to your work, for pleasure?

A pleasant coincidence or a sign of destiny? One day I received a call from my friend Gilberto Dorazi announcing the visit of David, a Taiwanese boy we had known together from work a few years earlier. At that time, it was 1996, with Gilberto, an electronic engineer, we invented the first flat screens for computers in Europe and probably in the world, I developing the design and functional mechanics, he the electronics, and it was then that we met David as a supplier of parts. A few years after that experience, David’s visit in 2003 pleasantly surprised me, I discovered that in the meantime he had changed company and place of work, dealing with plastic materials, a subject dear to me for the seats and objects I had designed at the end of the 90s. Thus we began, he and I, a journey of a few days visiting the protagonists of plastics that I knew and frequented. The exchange of views during the time in the car was intense, satisfying my curiosity, and one of his sentences struck me: “you have to come to Shanghai, wonderful things are happening”. I only knew Shanghai by name, a few films, Rossellini and Spielberg, and for the memories of sailors passed down in the family in the stories of my father and my uncles who had ended up there since the early sixties. That sentence, at that moment in my life, changed everything: the worm had crept in, starting its work and determining a point of no return, there was no longer any possibility of reconsidering my intentions, I had to move on. I called Gilberto and said to him: “shall we leave?”.

We arrived in China the same year, I was struck by it: what places, what colors, what smells and what frenetic activity! The exact opposite of what had determined in me that sense of dissatisfaction in Italy due to the lack of curiosity, desire to experiment and freshness, of novelty. A perception that had led me wrongly to think that I was wrong in communicating my feelings, however, despite never having given much weight to the interference of others, in that moment everything reset and I felt an unexpected pleasure because I had fallen in love, in love with China. The following year I returned several times creating prototypes of a project developed for Brionvega, from there everything began, I returned to Italy five years later, in the meantime I had toured Asia.

How did your experience with China begin? Was it a casual meeting, linked to your work, for pleasure?

A pleasant coincidence or a sign of destiny? One day I received a call from my friend Gilberto Dorazi announcing the visit of David, a Taiwanese boy we had met together from work a few years earlier. At that time, it was 1996, with Gilberto, an electronic engineer, we invented the first flat screens for computers in Europe and probably in the world, I developing the design and functional mechanics, he the electronics, and it was then that we met David as a supplier of parts. A few years after that experience, David’s visit in 2003 pleasantly surprised me, I discovered that in the meantime he had changed company and place of work, dealing with plastic materials, a subject dear to me for the seats and objects I had designed at the end of the 90s. Thus we began, he and I, a journey of a few days visiting the protagonists of plastics that I knew and frequented. The exchange of views during the time in the car was intense, satisfying my curiosity, and one of his sentences struck me: “you have to come to Shanghai, wonderful things are happening”. I only knew Shanghai by name, a few films, Rossellini and Spielberg, and for the memories of sailors passed down in the family in the stories of my father and my uncles who had ended up there since the early sixties. That sentence, at that moment in my life, changed everything: the woodworm had cracked in, starting its work and determining a point of no return, there was no longer any possibility of reconsidering my intentions, I had to move on. I called Gilberto and said to him: “shall we leave?”.

We arrived in China the same year, I was struck by it: what places, what colors, what smells and what frenetic activity! The exact opposite of what had determined in me that sense of dissatisfaction in Italy due to the lack of curiosity, of desire to experiment and of freshness, of novelty. A perception that had led me wrongly to think that I was wrong in communicating my feelings, however, despite never having given much weight to the interference of others, in that moment everything reset and I felt an unexpected pleasure because I had fallen in love, in love with China. The following year I returned several times making prototypes of a project developed for Brionvega, from there everything began, I returned to Italy five years later, in the meantime I had toured Asia.

How has your relationship with China evolved over time?

Pleasantly, at the beginning, not needing to work for the proceeds of the royalties I received for objects designed and produced in Italy, I took a house in Shanghai, decided to get an idea of ​​the country by traveling, accepting every type of involvement, I visited companies, towns, cities, countryside, crossing the country from the sea to the mountains to the desert areas of Gansu, storing unique sensory experiences that I nourished myself with all the time. After a couple of years of this life, I started working, inventing things to do, from design to trading, because I had developed the commercial experience in a previous “life”.

I have never stopped traveling far and wide in China, I am always on the move trying to capture the less obvious and predictable aspects of each place, asking and investigating without respite and fear, because my desire to know and understand is insatiable. The natural evolution sees me married to a Chinese girl, much younger than me, active and independent, atypical for family ties, and the union has generated a daughter to whom I try to transmit, it would seem with temporary success, the desire for knowledge and independence, to visit places, to love what she does, then curiosity and reading as a refuge in which to rediscover oneself by flying on the wings of imagination.

What has your personal experience in this wonderful country taught you?

It is certainly an incredible country, full of contradictions and therefore not easy. The customs and habits, although similar and sometimes coinciding with ours, have different characteristics, probably attributable to the language formed by ideograms that take on even opposite meanings when the tone or position within a sentence or context changes. This, together with millennia of history, have contributed to an alternative logical development, which must be understood and accepted in all its peculiarities. It is easy for me to accept the nuances, regardless of language barriers, I have no prejudices, I am open to everything and nothing offends me if different in form, genre or thought, and generally I start from the assumption that those who want to know find a way to communicate, snatching news and information even with just a few words or a look.

I have learned the sense of proportion, of the humility of those who own empires but do not refuse to mix with those who have little or nothing, sharing the convivial joy of a meal in a dive for many not even approachable or of a game of cards. There is a different relationship between the social parties, 30 years ago in China everyone was at the same level, poor, according to Western schemes, those who put themselves on the line did so with their means and few forget where they started from.

I have learned that life is all about becoming, here more than elsewhere, and that there is a prerequisite of solidarity, people help you for the pleasure of doing so but if you achieve success you must know how to find a way to reciprocate and honor those who have spent themselves for you, without forgetting. This “behavior” corresponds to a complex system of maintaining relationships that has a name: guangxi.

I am still surprised by the speed, perhaps excessive, certainly overwhelming, which does not give you time to reflect on the one hand and educates you on the other to accelerate your reactions to a rapid, safe, certain response: you need to be trained to face its pitfalls ready and determined, because the Chinese are suspicious and uncertainty is interpreted maliciously.

An endless journey, an adventure, during which you learn, you delude yourself, you are satisfied, you receive joys and disappointments, as in other places in the world one might say, but here with different intensities leaving even in desperate situations, glimmers of escape, I would say doors, which have assumed and assume for me tones of hope never felt elsewhere.

BUSINESS with and in China

How has China changed compared to its early years from the point of view of business in its specific sector? What are the differences that have struck you the most, both positively and negatively?

I mainly deal with architecture and design on the one hand, while on the other with production and trading, these apparently antipodal areas, configure a complex personality in the eyes of others. In reality, the ease with which I can transfer attention to the different themes allows me to perceive aspects and details that are impossible for others to notice; you just need to know me better, scrape away the rough crust of the gruff and distrustful soul typical of the Ligurian origins that I retain, to change your opinion, but I don’t allow this to everyone.

Undoubtedly, time together with the role of factory of the world assumed, have played a fundamental role in the development of the country, for example by bringing industrial production from a primordial level in 2004 to an excellent level. You could already guess when I arrived, if you have the eyes to read together with the ability to intuit and a little bit of economic history, that the future would lead to these results, courses and recourses, I like to remember. For many years now, the Chinese industry has been able to satisfy every type of need and quality level; if in the world the perception is that the Chinese product is terrible, it means that there is a strong demand and perhaps, paradoxically, from the same people who criticize, ready to buy when needed: the importers adapt. The difference between a poor product and an excellent one is minimal, 30%, but this gap for many companies in the supply chain represents profit and the market adapts.

The evolution of quality over the years has been countered by a poor propensity for research, innovation to the detriment of the OEM product, giving rise to an imbalance in the offer of products on the market.

In Italy I had focused my attention on designing objects for the speed of execution and production of the product that satisfied the ego and allowed me to experiment with shapes, functions and materials. In China I had the opportunity to design and create every type of product and when I agreed to “think” for a company, in the sector in which it operated I did not look for competitors; then I began to realize that customers were not able to value new ideas and the logical and sales processes were wrong, anchored to third-party production, so I began to give them what they expected, keeping the interesting ideas for myself, those subject to patents, many of which have not yet been commercially exploited. My disappointment is for the results we would have obtained if only they had listened to my observations and strategies related to product development rather than being carried away by the temporary euphoria of increased sales: in any case a positive experience that I am now using for personal projects.

After a long period in which I only dealt with architecture, accepting roles as a contract teacher for some Chinese universities, only recently I started designing products again, but I learned to manage the phases of the work by patenting and protecting my creativity before communicating it and by operating following precise and calibrated steps in order to make the execution of the projects, from the idea to the sale, sustainable and efficient.

Tell us about your experience in Shanghai. What is your role and what are the main results you have achieved over the years?

When I arrived, I found a fantastic city at my feet, full of resources, beautiful also from an architectural point of view, ancient, perhaps just a little old, fascinating, unique. I walked it far and wide, in the evening, at night, a unique spectacle that only those who lived through those times can remember, understand and regret. The worst thing that could happen, alone, at 3 in the morning while I was wandering around the streets of the still active old city, was that someone curious about my presence, called an acquaintance or a friend who spoke English and I ended up being invited to share a night meal.

The city of today has evolved, and has chosen, whoever for it, to do it perhaps in the most aggressive and incorrect way, erasing not too slowly entire old neighborhoods, the history tied to them and the ties born, grown and died in them, making room for the speculation of tower buildings to accommodate offices or residences, reconfiguring the skyline of the city every 6 months for years until the current state. I have not had any leading role in all this, if anything I am pleased to have been lucky enough to have been part of a large mechanism, bringing home some small results, in the city of Shanghai, grown and changed quickly. I have created projects that have not stood the test of time, recovering industrial areas that have been erased over the years by evolution or speculation, while other examples of reconversion of buildings in urban areas are still visible: the one I am interested in is called Xtower, I like it, perhaps not even for its aesthetics, an example, for having been able to wrest from those 35,000 meters of the project, a space initially intended for parking, converting it into an urban square, as we Europeans understand it, functional and active, alive, perhaps the only example of its kind in Shanghai.

How important is it to know the local culture and language in your business?

I like to think about the term culture differently in its meaning. I believe that culture is personal, rather than collective, while areas that belong to different places have different values: art, architecture, literature, cuisine, folklore can be traced back to behavioral models. Then, there are similarities in some areas of the earth, distant from each other and almost incompatible, that make us feel closer, even if differently, to our places of origin, and this is what happens when living in China. I repeat myself by saying that it is important to know how to use the senses to grasp and read what surrounds us, it turns out that China and Italy have many points in common and over the millennia they have had many points of contact through travelers, merchants and precursors with the smell of proselytism, who have passed down habits and customs to us and who have managed to transfer ours here. Of course, you have to face everything with a humble spirit, leave pride at home, be sure of what you are talking about, knowing that everything is relative: I have seen Italian industrialists who react angrily, thinking that being famous elsewhere gave them the right to present themselves with arrogance, without understanding that if the brand is unknown in China, you are starting from scratch; and it happened that they considered the Chinese interlocutor with gratuitous superficiality, without understanding that he could have a purchasing power n times greater than the value of the Italian company. China is also this, in a certain way it levels and it is the responsibility of those who propose to demonstrate that they are up to the task in order to earn the trust of the market and/or a social position, decisively but on tiptoe.

I believe that knowledge of the Chinese language is important for daily communication and not only, however, due to the complexity of the mechanisms of non-verbal communication, I believe it is, in many cases, superfluous for the purposes of determining and closing deals at any level. It happens that the non-verbal system that regulates interpersonal relationships between Chinese people has nuances that are completely or partially hidden from foreigners, as such, not out of malice or distrust but simply because they do not unconsciously believe that we would be able to understand them. This prevents access to a good part of the information, which we would consider important because it can be interpreted differently, which is hidden or scaled down even by the same collaborating companions who bend to the rules of the community. It is not easy, you have to show up prepared and the only way to be able to talk at a table as equals is to have a person of high local reputation at your side who cannot be fooled in any way, under penalty of breaking balances that are already in themselves unstable and wavering at every breath of wind. You have to know how to let yourself be carried away, trust yourself aware of the dangers, cautious but positive if you are sure that what we can offer cannot be found or replicated elsewhere, then everything magically comes true, accepted, you gain respect because in the meantime you have shown in some way that you deserve it.

In all this, language has little to do with it and after twenty years I can say that those who are interested in what you say find a way to communicate with you and above all understand what you are talking about. Another important aspect not to be underestimated.

As for your current company, what are the projects you are focusing on and the future goals?

It’s useless, I’m a dreamer, an idealist, I have a title, architect, which determines a role within the company, which conditions with preconceptions those who approach me with the presumption that all those who have shared the same course of study are equal, identical and that they can behave or worse, think in the same way. This is an important premise because the stimuli that are received, the thoughts that develop and the experiences are so different and innumerable, that I can’t even associate them with those who have followed a linear course of study, with a life before events different from the stereotyped ones, without great emotions or free to act and interact with others, as on the contrary happened to me since I was a boy. I consider myself a thinker who uses every cue and situation to think about drawing alternative solutions, I have read “papers”, treatises and texts on topics so far from what I studied for that they allowed me to play by crossing references, mixing notions together, obtaining different results, such as applying principles of chemistry and physics to the development of patents on alternative uses of materials in commonly used products or in mechanisms. This makes me feel distant from those who superficially look you over, stopping at the first layer of the armor we wear, without a minimum of curiosity to discover what is hinted at under it: it is true that my armor is thick, I owe it, as mentioned, to my childhood in the valleys of the Genoese hinterland in contact with those who still bore visible scars of their partisan and fighting past that had passed only a few decades ago but were alive in their souls: these rough characters, with a kind soul that emerged when they were asked questions about their past or about the cultivation of the “fasce”’, appreciated the curiosity of a child, ready to hit him an hour later with the “Bacco” discovering him stealing a fruit from a tree dear to them. But it was part of a game of roles and teachings, which even then I appreciated, however painful.

These memories have contributed to developing a particular interest in the recovery of rural areas, a theme on which I have been working for years, applying its principles mainly in the province of Shandong. The aesthetic improvement, I believe, is the last and fun part compared to the complex game of variables to work on, which leads to the creation of a model that can enhance the countryside socially and economically. Just walk in the middle of the fields, stop for a tea with those who live there every day and listen to what they have to say to realize what is missing, the love of residents for places that they see literally crumbling in the promise of progress, elsewhere, capable of guaranteeing basic comforts. If everything starts from the concept of widespread well-being, very dear to me, we need to understand the mechanisms that regulate it to simply discover the stupid clichés that emerge: those who live in the countryside, the elderly or children, these are the realities encountered, have needs that are light years away from those of young people who live in the city, living expenses are reduced to a minimum and not much else is needed, houses, cars, fashion, and countless superficialities linked to consumerism are useless. The values ​​at stake are very different and much less is needed to be well. These are well-known concepts, they should not be written, but it is better to remember them. Only through the dignity of work can the two great problems that afflict the countryside be solved: depopulation and poverty, thus bringing closer those who have moved away from their places of origin. Nothing must be invented, if anything we intervene by applying the criteria of sustainable circular economy, which have regulated peasant life since time immemorial, to organize and develop local production, always different and varied by areas of interest, applying imagination and creativity, proposing and offering solutions capable of creating added value to what nature offers through the creation of laboratories and small processing industries. Agriculture managed and supported with the aid of technology that I define as simple, however complicated it is here is still within reach, to facilitate experimental cultures and allow continuous monitoring even in inaccessible areas. Added to this is the use of abandoned or demolished buildings, the reuse of volumes to create basic services for the population, meeting places for the elderly and children and then tourist reception, making the villages and areas suitable for those who want to settle by repopulating the territory on a permanent or temporary basis.

Rural buildings are recovered by providing them with services and insulation through the use of agricultural waste materials, for example, which, when properly treated, become an inexhaustible source of low-impact and very low-cost technical solutions. If we combine these with innovation and technology, we obtain results that force the farmer and his descendants to rethink abandoning the freedom of their original open spaces to lock themselves in a small apartment with windows of a few meters. Probably an alternative and poetic vision born by rethinking the life of our provincial villages and the evolution over time, from abandonment to rediscovery, comparing it to local situations, what is currently unacceptable for the elderly is certainly rejected by the new generations, we need to reverse the trend.

Then there are the projects in the cities, which I love for that complex game of social relations that intertwine with cultural exchanges and work, life in short, that exists and resists in some safe areas of many cities in China that should be enhanced, safeguarded, fixed and structured without the presumption of knowing more. I believe this is possible only through a different approach, capable of generating incisive and structured results, related to the context and calibrated on the needs of the population, analyzing all the aspects and socio-economic, functional parameters. Surprisingly, these conditions allow us to enhance places and buildings, increase their commercial value, obtaining a quick return on investment and higher profits from activities.

We come to the chapter “production”, mentioned above, in a consortium or “alone”, the challenge is to propose alternative, new solutions, making the products unique and ready to face the challenges of foreign markets, Western companies, which today look at China with fear and distrust. Here I would like these two adjectives to be transformed into admiration and respect, because China’s effort to move from a rural development model to a successful and quality industrial one has been accomplished over the course of two, almost three, decades, and I don’t think anyone can have anything to complain about.

How has the pandemic affected your business and what strategies have you implemented to respond to the crisis?

I tried to keep a calm attitude, analyzing the situation and future scenarios, finally, as one should do in times of crisis, I invested in something alternative. At the time of the pandemic, which ended in China in January 2023, I diversified by veering and focusing, in some cases, on other areas even distant from those related to me, still trying to see the positive side of the situation, if and when possible to find one. This last statement is due to the moments of discouragement experienced in a time that seemed endless in which we witnessed periods of total closure alternating with limited mobility, prevented or impossible due to the rules applied or the risks associated with it in the event of travel. This weighed heavily on trade with the temporary, prolonged or intermittent closure of small-scale trade, the economic basis for an infinite number of people, as well as even the ongoing speculation on international transport that caused exports to suffer. All this has not even been felt in the Western world, but in China it has left a deep mark even in public administrations that have always guaranteed the free monitoring service to the entire population for years, sustaining significant costs. A resolute and resilient attitude that is slowly bringing the situation back to normal and that has started to bear fruit.

What are the main challenges that you have encountered in your experience as a successful Italian in China? What are the positive surprises?

Many and above all of non-verbal communication that I mentioned. Following the logical thread, either you are part of the community or you are excluded. It is important to be able to surround yourself with people who have a vision if not equal to yours, who at least manage to understand what you want to say and correctly interpret the information you communicate, able to transfer to the other party, in a congruent way, the message containing the solutions that they expect or not from you. Experience is formed on the less pleasant aspects and on problems that appear unsolvable and that then, observed from different angles, take on mitigated tones and offer the flank to simple solutions only by making logic work. The surprise is meeting people, as recently happened, who tell you: “I have a dream…”, on these notes I begin to speak and with my interlocutor we exchange thoughts on how it would be nice to level inequalities, while maintaining differences, respecting the territory and using technology for the purposes of a shared common well-being.

How important is the role of technology in your business? From this point of view, is it an advantage for your company to be able to operate in China?

Fundamentally, access here is simpler and more immediate. There are companies that produce anything, all types of technologies related to different sectors and for those who have ideas, and work on these by association, it is simple to play to create opportunities, new applications, new products. Procurement is essential and makes everything very simple, a message and you immediately get the costs of the services or basic products that you can use for the experiments, elsewhere this would be very complicated, I don’t dare to think in Italy.

Logistics is the strong point of the entire supply chain: speed, economy and punctuality describe an idyllic condition for those who want to simplify the work.

GOING EAST – Why does it make sense for an Italian company to be in China?

Why does it still make sense for an Italian company to focus on the Chinese market and what are the opportunities in particular in the part of the country where you operate?

What are you looking for? Companies invest and disinvest in third countries for the services they receive, for the costs of production, labor, taxation and procurement of materials. China is convenient if you know where to operate, of course if you decide to open in Shanghai, Suzhou or Hangzhou the general costs will be up to n times higher than lesser-known areas, although attractive and excellently served through a transport network structured like in no other country in the world.

Added to this are the company strategies that you intend to pursue. Whether to look at China as a commercial partner for distribution and sales, or a place to produce or a third option the sum of what has just been written.

English: It is certainly a vast, populous country, full of resources and constantly evolving and I cannot imagine companies without a strategy and vision that approach China, for help it would make sense to think of a common information platform capable of supporting and promoting them, answering questions, even the petty ones of the stomach, dissolving doubts and perplexities by clearly exposing the advantages and disadvantages of the commercial operations that are intended to be undertaken. I believe this should be a task that can be carried out by our Ministry for Foreign Economic Policies and the structures it uses such as ITA-ICE, on which I will not express myself due to a lack of data and interest. A book could be written on the role of Italian institutions and the ability to promote the country system, certainly not like other countries whose cohesion is significant and promotion is structured, but we can understand that as we are complicated the problem is to be found in Monte (citorio), which unloads on the Diplomatic network the never coherent guidelines, different depending on the color, without understanding that economic development should be linked to the well-being of companies, investors and the community it represents. Here we see companies that have opened, closed in response to Rome’s decisions and are now returning to find a different fabric than the one they left behind, but we can postpone these and other reflections to another appointment.

Are you already present in Chongqing or in the Chengdu-Chongqing economic circle?

We have some projects completed for a hotel chain but far from being able to say that we are present, as in other regions of China. We have been concentrating our efforts in the Shandong province for a few years, investing even during the pandemic. There are many local industrial resources and interlocutors with a greater open-mindedness than that noted in entrepreneurs from other provinces with whom I have worked. A different approach, certainly more interesting, pragmatic and free from those narrow-minded dynamics of saving to get the most, managing to understand that strategy and knowledge allow companies to project themselves to compete on the international market with more efficiency.

How can the Galilei and Sant’Anna in Chongqing be useful to your company in China and Italy?

Surely at this moment companies in China are starting a different phase of work compared to the previous one. This new condition has been determined by the changing needs of the markets among which we must mention: the competition of poorer Asian countries with low labor, the activation of duties and the tightening of diplomatic relations with other countries, the raising of quality standards that do not allow industrial production to turn downwards, finally the introduction of robotics in companies even of small and medium size, which determines a high level of manufacturing, hence the increase in the necessary technicians, the reduction and conversion of workers into specialized technicians.

The start by the Chinese Government of a process for the protection of intellectual property projects companies in search of ideas by promoting the research and filing of patents certain that their rights are respected, the principle of uniqueness is also consolidated in China which in fact shifts the competition from the level of lower costs, which has caused much damage in the past and the unfair flattening of the market.

In this context, Galileo and Sant’Anna could train and attract talents, people capable of bringing, with preparation and knowledge, the necessary differences, adding further value and different directions, in short alternative visions that would otherwise be impossible. We need to import comparison, create debate and recognize that with an approach to problems different from the consolidated one is not always effective, we need to recognize this everywhere, not only in China. Creating a bridge of intellectual resources from and to the two countries, through which experiences in the most varied fields are offered and requested, could be a key to favoring changes in life and important directions for people and places.

Interview by Marco Bonaglia